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TOPIC: R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc.

R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15606

  • Dutch-Stoner
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I use the LTT boards alot, but I highly doubt people there will give me good advice, so I'm going to try my luck here.

I'm interested in an R7 8-core CPU. I plan to keep the motherboard + CPU for at least 7 years. I will most likely not be using the CPU at it's full potential the next few years, but I expect there will come a point where 8 cores equals to "required to browse the internet".

Because it needs to last a long time, I'm interested in silicon quality. Logic and common sense tells me the silicon quality of an 1800x will be better then the silicon of an 1700x, and the silicon of an 1700x would be better then the 1700. According to an vid from GN, they are otherwise "the same". (which I will accept as a fact)

Is my assumption correct. Will an 1800X last longer (before it breaks) then an 1700 on average (same speeds), due to (possibly) better silicon. Will be running the pc 24/7.

Another part of the same reasoning: running at the same speeds, will an 1700 run higher temps then an 1800X.

Please don't tell me to get an cheap motherboard with an R5 1500, and get an brand new pc after 3,5 years. I get great sattisfaction from maxing out the life of my main components. My previous mobo/CPU combo lasted me ~10 years, before I encountered issues with the normal tasks I do on my pc. (with upgrades to them other parts)

Which would you suggest. 1700, 1700x or 1800x. Won't be OC-ing untill I am at the end of it's functional pc tasks life. Will be paired with an good quality ~200-250 euro motherboard. Purchase price will be spread out over ~7 years, so keep the CPU price differences in mind with price increase per year.
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15621

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Any CPU will last 5 years and more. You will want something better before the CPU dies.

A 1700 is rated at 65W. An 1800X at 95W - at stock clocks. The 1800 has higher stock clocks and needs a better cooler to keep as cool as a 1700 at stock clocks. But at say 3900MHz, the 1700 will need more voltage and so put out more heat. But a better cooler can bring it back to lower temps.

For gaming, I'd go with a R5 1600 - and OC it. For production (eg videos) I'd prefer the 1700 - 8 cores is better than 6.
R7-1700 @3900/1.375V, H110iGT, ASRock x370 Taichi, GSkill 2x8GB 3200/14 @3466/14 1.38V, Samsung 250gb EVO (W10), 2TB Barracuda, 2 x R9 Nano, EVGA G2 750, Enthoo Pro, LG 34UM88. Aizo kb, M6580, HyperX Cloud
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15622

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I think you missunderstood what he meant when with "silicon quality".

The silicon itself is "the same" because of a process called 'binning'.
More about that here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_binning

The short Version:
They produce a whole lot of chips, test them and decide afterwards what CPU it'll become.
Everything works? It's a 1800X.
Clockspeeds not quite up there? It's a 1700X.
Only some cores malfunctioning? Disable them, it's a 1500.

The "sillicon" or Manufacturing is exactly the same for all of them. Heck, a 1500 could've been right next to a 1800X on the waver. Due to binning, the chip that becomes a 1800X will be more stable or requires lower voltage then the 1700 - but is physically (more or less) the same otherwise. That's why a 1700 will (physically) last as long as any other chip (if properly used) and the "silicon quality" doesn't make a difference as far as life expectency goes.
(The difference caused by higher clocks, temperatures or voltages is negligible if kept within specifications).

For 24/7 Operation and best life expectency, I would normally go with Server- and Workstation Hardware - because that's what they're build for. (I know - not exactly what your looking for).

But to be honest: It doesn't really matter. A CPU will last for a century and more andvwill be replaced because of it's low performance and not it actually failing. Yes, it will fail at some point and yes, overclocking amd higher temperatures reduce its lifespan - but how much? If it's "only" going to last 20 years instead of 30, nobody cares, because its going to be too slow way before that anyways. And as far as expected lifespan goes: We don't know. There's barely any data and information about this. No wonder, because nobody has run a 14nm chip for 20 years yet.

As for the performance aspect: Again, nobody knows. Improvements have been small over the past years - but I wouldn't use that as an indicator, because now AMD is back and the Competition could lead to greater jumps in the future. COULD. It could also slow down even more, as Manufacturing on ever smaller nodes becomes more difficult. The future is uncertain - as always.

I suggest what I always would:
If you want the best now
and if you can afford the best now,
then buy the best now
and be happy.
i7-4790K @ 4.7 GHz | 2x8GB DDR3-2400 Avexir Blitz 1.1 | Z87 Gigabyte G1.Sniper 5 | Asus ROG Poseidon GTX 1080 Ti | Kingston HyperX 3K | Phanteks Enthoo Primo Tempered Glass | Super Flower Leadex Platinum 1200W | Thermaltake Riing RGB | XSPC RayStorm | Alphacool NexXxoS 420 XT45 | Alphacool Eisbecher + Laing DDC 3.25 + Alphacool Aurora RGB | Hardline PETG Tubing | This is ridiculous | EKWB CryoFuel AcidGreen | Green&Black Sleeved Cables | Acer Predator Z35 | Logitech G302 + G633 + G510s | etc..
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15628

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Thank you for your reply @birdhunter. I think I am starting to understand things a bit moar.

1800X: Everything works as the chip was designed, and performance is within full maximum intended spec.

1700X: Some minor defects in the chip/silicon, which make it function a bit less. But by lowering the specs, it will perform (and be stable) within minimal spec. You won't notice them defects if used within advertized spec.

1700: Same with 1700x, but even lower minimum spec.

During 24/7 usage with advertized specs, all of them operate as intended and have no stability difference (within a margin of error). The defects, or les optimal operation, isn't an issue due to lowered performance.

So to continue this reasoning: let's say I would get an 1800X, and UNDERclock it to 1700 performance. It should still be just as stable as an 1700, but due to a better chip, have lower temps at the same speeds. Is this (within a margin or error/silicon lottery) correct?

As for server grade hardware: I've considered it. But considering the things I do on my pc, it's overkill and too expencive. And I'm a bit of "that guy" that likes to brag about his very old pc which is still his daily driver, very stable, can still do the same basic tasks as a new pc.

For example, I've used an AMD Athlon X2 64 bit 4200+ for ~10 years, 24/7 usage as daily driver. Yes, games were limited, and yes it has had lots of upgrades. But it could do all basic tasks, and it did it well. It's currently still used every day (not 24/7) by my gf to watch movies and series and chat and browse them interwebs on her big tv screen. (while loads of other people complain about hundreds of issues with their 5 year old pc)

But before an PC gets old, it has to be new once. And buying quality parts will help. That's mainly why I am trying to figure this out.

@i7baby I get what you are saying. But to increase chances of an current gen be functional enough after a long time, I'd want to get an 8 core. It's not what I need at this moment, but I like to have the extra performance for when it becomes moar important in the future and still use "old stuff".
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15631

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R7-1700 @3900/1.375V, H110iGT, ASRock x370 Taichi, GSkill 2x8GB 3200/14 @3466/14 1.38V, Samsung 250gb EVO (W10), 2TB Barracuda, 2 x R9 Nano, EVGA G2 750, Enthoo Pro, LG 34UM88. Aizo kb, M6580, HyperX Cloud
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15633

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Thank you @I7baby. Because of that vid, I got these questions. "they are the same". But that would mean they arent binned? There is no heat output difference at same speeds?
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15634

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R3, R5 and R7 all come from the same silicon, but are classified by how many cores work.

R7, at stock voltages (which vary in the range) run faster from 1700 up to 1800x. They would all run at the same (or *close to it) temp,voltage and power at the same clocks. They can all be OCd. They also range in prices. The best performing, at stock voltages/clocks is the 1800x. A 1700 can be OCd to nearly match an OCd 1800x. The 1700 is better bang for the buck. They are all better bang for the buck than Intel for computational type work. But they won't perform better than a much more expensive i7 6950x.

*Temps would depend on the cooler and how much power is being consumed including heat given off and taken away.
Power is roughly proportional to the square of the voltage applied.
For a constant speed eg 4GHz an average 1700 would need a tad more voltage applied (eg 1.465v) than a 1800X (~1.450v). There would be a small percentage of 1700s that only need 1.450v or less. So there is also overlap between the 1700,1700x,1800 and 1800x. And hence the idea of a silicon 'lottery'. Also this is why 1700s run slower than 1800x at stock voltages - the default stock voltage for 1700 is also lower than that for an 1800x.
R7-1700 @3900/1.375V, H110iGT, ASRock x370 Taichi, GSkill 2x8GB 3200/14 @3466/14 1.38V, Samsung 250gb EVO (W10), 2TB Barracuda, 2 x R9 Nano, EVGA G2 750, Enthoo Pro, LG 34UM88. Aizo kb, M6580, HyperX Cloud
Last Edit: 2 months 1 week ago by i7Baby.
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 1 week ago #15635

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Dutch-Stoner wrote:
Thank you @I7baby. Because of that vid, I got these questions. "they are the same". But that would mean they arent binned? There is no heat output difference at same speeds?

They are all binned. He said that, because on Intel platforms, the l2/l3 chache and core count can be different. Intel "adds" (or doesn't deactivate) pcie-lanes and cache, which is why two similarly clocked processors from the same wafer still can have minor difference. On AMD, that's not the case: The 170ΓΌ has the same amount of cache and pci-e lanes as the 1800x and comes from the same waver. The only difference between them is really just the clockspeed and voltages.

And unless you can buy them pre-tested from a vendor, you won't know for sure how good of an over- or underclocker the chip can be - only that the 1800x will be slightly better. Slightly. And those 30W TDP difference can easily be acounted for with a decent cooler.

I wouldn't worry too much about that minor difference in voltages, because at the end of the day, it's pure luck if you get a chip with above or below average voltages. Save the money, get a 1700 and put a good cooler on it.
i7-4790K @ 4.7 GHz | 2x8GB DDR3-2400 Avexir Blitz 1.1 | Z87 Gigabyte G1.Sniper 5 | Asus ROG Poseidon GTX 1080 Ti | Kingston HyperX 3K | Phanteks Enthoo Primo Tempered Glass | Super Flower Leadex Platinum 1200W | Thermaltake Riing RGB | XSPC RayStorm | Alphacool NexXxoS 420 XT45 | Alphacool Eisbecher + Laing DDC 3.25 + Alphacool Aurora RGB | Hardline PETG Tubing | This is ridiculous | EKWB CryoFuel AcidGreen | Green&Black Sleeved Cables | Acer Predator Z35 | Logitech G302 + G633 + G510s | etc..
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 3 days ago #15678

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I think by now it's pretty clear the all the Ryzen chips perform pretty well the same, you are looking at a max clock of around 4-4.1GHz.

My 1700 run at 3.7GHz @ 1.25v 24/7 (literally never gets turned off), hasn't missed a beat, my mate got the 1800x and he just runs it at stock, when we first got them and did some benching, my 1700 managed to get 4GHz with 1.5v but wasn't super happy, while his got to 4.1GHz with the same volts.

So really, just ask yourself if you think 2-300MHz is worth the price, I would say no, get 1700, spend more money on other parts like more/better mem, GPU etc.

Any chip you get is going to outlast you no doubt so I wouldn't worry about it to much.
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R7 1700(X) or R7 1800X or maybe even moar epyc. 2 months 2 days ago #15693

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Thank you for your reply @ Sipheren.

I have made up my mind. Since there is some kind of usefull binning, I do want to spend a bit moar currency items to get a slightly better binned CPU. Although I do understand it might be pointless. But for the peace of mind, I will be getting an 1700X. Price difference is something I am willing to accept + is close to nothing spread out over (at least) 5 years.

I will be getting a good aftermarket cooling solution, not sure if I will bother with OC-ing that CPU. (it's overkill anyways for what I will be doing)

Now I will need to find a good motherboard with qualityparts and the I/O I want. Not sure yet if I will need a topic for that here, but ofcourse: anyone can make suggestions in this topic.

Motherboard will need:
-Lots of quality parts.
-At least 6x SATA-3
-At least 6 USB ports on the back of the mobo. (got no USB-3 hardware atm, and don't intend to use external drives, so USB-2.0 is still considered USB by me)
-Good enough quality onboard sound, with output for 5.1 surround sound.
-ATX formfactor. (or larger if there are moar options which I like)
-Ofcourse 4 ram slots.
-2 full size PCI-e slots minimal.
-Reputable brand.
-At least 1 PS/2 connector.
-X370 chipset.

Motherboard features I would like:
-Non-RGB is a plus, but I assume I can disable any RGB on it anyways.
-Pump connector.
-Lots of fan headers.
-~3000 mhz memory support.
-Removable fancy plastic covers/heatsink crap, so I can replace it with something else/paint it.
-Colour that would go well with copper/brass/steampunk themed case.

*PS: I would scratch my head if price was below 150 euro's, and my max budget would be somewhere up to 300 euro.
Last Edit: 2 months 2 days ago by Dutch-Stoner.
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